My university may have screwed me out of a lot of money

"Chariotoflove" (chariotoflove) 03/13/2019 at 16:05 • Filed to: work rant

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This could be bad, and I’m not sure how it will shake out. Last Fall, I ended a collaboration with an investigator at another university by mutual agreement so I could save the grant money I was paying him to use on other projects. the grants person in my administration supposedly executes the paperwork to modify the contract with that university, or so I thought.

This week I find out he never got around to doing that contract amendment before he left his job at our august institution. He just stopped paying the invoices the other school submitted to us. His boss found out and tried to retroactively terminate the contract this week saying her office won’t pay out on anymore invoices . The other school isn’t having any of it. They are saying we are obligated to pay the invoices they submitted under the contract as it was executed.

So, my grants management person sent me a message today asking me, “please advise”. How the hell am I supposed to advise? I don’t know how to fix this mess they made. I’ m supposed to age the talent, not management. We’re talking many thousands of dollars of grant money I can ill afford to lose, and my past experience has me worrying I’ll be hung out to dry.

CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever > Chariotoflove 03/13/2019 at 16:10

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I love “ (insert major issue)...please advise” emails.

I am always tempted to reply “ ...well, I guess we’re fucked”

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > Chariotoflove 03/13/2019 at 16:11

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Sounds like a royal mess. It appears you have a clear trail of what was supposed to happen, and all fingers point at your university’s paper pushers dropping the ball. Whatever actually ends up happening I would go in with the firm position that this is their mistake, not yours – so they figure out how to keep you whole while making the problem go away with the collaborator. From the collaborator’s perspective they’re well within their rights too it sounds like in demanding that they be paid what to date has been the agreement.

Chariotoflove > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 03/13/2019 at 16:15

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I so wanted to reply like that, but I wish I could replace the “we” with “you”.

CalzoneGolem > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 03/13/2019 at 16:15

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I advise you put your head between your legs and kiss your ass goodbye.

Chariotoflove > ZHP Sparky, the 5th 03/13/2019 at 16:17

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Damn straight. I had a different kind of screw up by the grants people several years ago that led to their head trying to say they could garnish my grant money to pay an obligation.  I had to stand my ground and go to battle to say “hell no” to that. My budget isn’t going to pay for their mistake.

beardsbynelly - Rikerbeard > Chariotoflove 03/13/2019 at 16:18

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If you’re obliged to pay the invoices surely they were also obliged to do the work or provide the service as contracted?

At least in my country the agreement from the investigator would be a defence in contract law.

CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever > CalzoneGolem 03/13/2019 at 16:19

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If you’re going to get fired anyway, just reply with:

Chariotoflove > beardsbynelly - Rikerbeard 03/13/2019 at 16:23

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That’s a very good point that I should be sure to bring up. The invoice payment approvals from me include language that says all deliverables are proceeding as planned from the work. Well, I can show from email trains that deliverables were not proceeding (the experiments weren’t working out), and that’s why we agreed to terminate the collaboration contract.

The problem for me is that the collaborator is also my friend, and if the money spent has to come out of his hide or mine, it bothers me.  I am not okay with my friend getting screwed as a product of me protecting myself.

DucST3-Red-1Liter-Standing-By > Chariotoflove 03/13/2019 at 16:28

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I freaking hate dealing with our grants people. “Useless as tits on a bull” comes to mind. Hopefully you’ve got records of the mutual termination somewhere to show them. Do you have other grants right now? Or is this going to tie you totally up?

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > Chariotoflove 03/13/2019 at 16:45

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If the person is your friend and the collaboration ended on a positive note with no hard feelings, wouldn’t it be an option to talk to them and say hey the grant folks dropped the ball getting this amended, but as we both know this project had already ended – so can you tell your folks to move past this, and we can work on getting the paperwork cleared up?

WilliamsSW > Chariotoflove 03/13/2019 at 16:54

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“ I would advise you to build a time machine and go back and tell your 2018 self to do your job"

WilliamsSW > Chariotoflove 03/13/2019 at 16:58

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That really sucks. Hopefully you’v e got documentation of what you told the grants people to do.

Also, have you contacted the other researcher? He/ she knows you were severing the agreement and perhaps could help - although it might not be in their   own self interest to do so.

Good luck - and remember next time that these people are lazy idiots apparently.  

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > Chariotoflove 03/13/2019 at 16:59

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If this is a real friend, they will recognize they put you in a difficult spot by not doing the contract thing he was supposed to and step up and do the right thing

beardsbynelly - Rikerbeard > Chariotoflove 03/13/2019 at 17:05

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Sounds like you all need to get together in a mediation to explain your sides.

Going back and forth in emails generally gives people a chance to get on the defensive and look at everything in black and white.

Chariotoflove > DucST3-Red-1Liter-Standing-By 03/13/2019 at 17:08

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Oh, I’ve got money in other accounts, but this is not money I can afford to lose down the road either.  Grants are hard to come by these days, and the application to award cycle is a long one. Yes, I’ve got an email train.

Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks > Chariotoflove 03/13/2019 at 17:09

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And this is why you save the emails.

If you have emails documenting the mutual agreement to terminate (especially if they have the specific contract terms to be amended) you can make the case that both parties already had an MOU, and it was a simple paperwork error.

Chariotoflove > ZHP Sparky, the 5th 03/13/2019 at 17:11

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I’m considering how to do that.  Thing is, the money toward his salary has already been spent for this period, so I don’t want to get him screwed having to make up for it from his budget.  I’m pretty sure I could just go full dick on this and cut him and his university off and protect myself, but I suspect I’ll end up making a compromise.

Chariotoflove > WilliamsSW 03/13/2019 at 17:12

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I do, and I will.

These people are not the best of the bunch in that office. That’s for sure.

Chariotoflove > WilliamsSW 03/13/2019 at 17:12

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Adding this to the list of things I’d like to type but probably shouldn’t.

Chariotoflove > Manwich - now Keto-Friendly 03/13/2019 at 17:14

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He’s a good guy.  He will be in a tight spot himself though if they come to him and tell him to take the money already spent out of his budget.  He is between grants himself, and this could be a real hardship too.  I feel bad for me, but I feel bad for the spot he is in too.

Chariotoflove > beardsbynelly - Rikerbeard 03/13/2019 at 17:14

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This is truth.  I need to figure out a way to have a conversation, and soon.

Chariotoflove > Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks 03/13/2019 at 17:15

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Every single one, backed up right here.  

WilliamsSW > Chariotoflove 03/13/2019 at 17:16

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My old boss would type up emails like that, then delete them later without sending them.

She is sharp enough that she never screwed up and hit “ send”, and she said it felt good to do that. I took after her a bit on that, and it is quite a stress reliever.

Just don’t accidentally send them. 

Chariotoflove > WilliamsSW 03/13/2019 at 17:18

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My dad would dictate responses to reviewers like that and send it to his  secretary, who would know that they were a rant and not actually send them in the official reply. Got to relieve the pressure somehow.

Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo > Chariotoflove 03/13/2019 at 17:42

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That sucks!  A f riend of mine has a partnership with a university. Long story short the university failed to file a reimbursement request to a company before said company’s fiscal year was over (they had like... 4 months to do it) so that $40k is just... gone. Poof! University doesn’t give AF, they were just the middle men. This is one of the many reasons I don’t donate to my alma mater.

Chariotoflove > Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo 03/13/2019 at 17:44

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This is not an uncommon story. Functionaries mishandle other people’s money and then hid behind their   bureaucracy.

66P1800inpieces > Chariotoflove 03/13/2019 at 17:48

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1. Are you a healthcare professional or institution ?

2.  Can you loop in the university’s in-house counsel for a quick look?

Chariotoflove > 66P1800inpieces 03/13/2019 at 17:51

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1. Yes

2. Maybe.

66P1800inpieces > Chariotoflove 03/13/2019 at 18:06

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1. Yes = I’m out and cannot provide any guidance because of Sunshine (which actually may help you because I like anyone in the field would need to assign a value to any work I did and could not assist you without reporting it). Sunshine helps avoid many kickback issues.

2. Sounds like you should try discussing it with them

Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks > Chariotoflove 03/13/2019 at 18:32

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Even better. That means they’re in the records retention system for legal already. Just hand the lawyers the emails and say “here’s the records showing that this was agreed to in principle and the appropriate paperwork was filed at the appropriate time.” They should be able to take it from there.

Chariotoflove > Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks 03/13/2019 at 18:38

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That’s the problem.  My post-awards guy was supposed to file the appropriate sub award contract amendment, and I’m copied on his boss telling him he should, but he didn’t.  And she didn’t realize it until just now.

Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks > Chariotoflove 03/13/2019 at 18:43

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But, here’s the beauty: that makes it not your problem . You have all the records showing this. Throw ‘em in a tarball, throw ‘em at legal, and say “I did my job, here’s the proof. And they ceased collaborating immediately afterward. I don’t receive the invoices or send payments and   I’m not this guy’s manager, so I can’t tell you how to proceed.”

Chariotoflove > Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks 03/13/2019 at 18:57

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Yep, that’s true . But it’ll be a battle. And I can get in that mindset if I have to. I’ve done it before.  But dammit, I sure didn’t need this.